Comments on: How do you fall in love when your society has no word for it? http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/ A Passion for Japan Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:08:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Moji http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-157 Moji Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:37:58 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-157 One need look no further than Homer's Iliad to see a famous ancient world example of love. Furthermore, as Zack mentioned, the bible (and virtually all Western mythologies) are full of love stories. One need look no further than Homer’s Iliad to see a famous ancient world example of love. Furthermore, as Zack mentioned, the bible (and virtually all Western mythologies) are full of love stories.

]]> By: Japanese words http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-126 Japanese words Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:52:52 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-126 Another that is somewhat similar is the lack of a way to say "I missed you" in Japanese. Another that is somewhat similar is the lack of a way to say “I missed you” in Japanese.

]]> By: Asa http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Asa Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:18:46 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-125 Savagemike: There are literal ways of saying "I have a feeling of love for you", but the sentence would be confusing and come across in an awkward way. I think that the Japanese have always accepted love, though they may be to proud/embarrassed to express it vocally. Their actions show their affection. Savagemike:
There are literal ways of saying “I have a feeling of love for you”, but the sentence would be confusing and come across in an awkward way.

I think that the Japanese have always accepted love, though they may be to proud/embarrassed to express it vocally. Their actions show their affection.

]]> By: Savagemike http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-96 Savagemike Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:42:36 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-96 I may be wrong here, but there are actually 2 Japanese words for love: Ai and Koi. You can say "ai shite iru" to someone in Japanese and that means "I love you". Also, you can call your boyfriend/girlfriend "Koibito" (literally love-person). Maybe I misunderstand the point of the post? I may be wrong here, but there are actually 2 Japanese words for love: Ai and Koi.
You can say “ai shite iru” to someone in Japanese and that means “I love you”.
Also, you can call your boyfriend/girlfriend “Koibito” (literally love-person).

Maybe I misunderstand the point of the post?

]]> By: Lesley http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15 Lesley Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:15:05 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-15 Thank you all for your comments. There are plenty of words for love in modern Japanese - all with different nuances. I was talking about Japan up to the mid-nineteenth century - which is when my novel is set. At that point there were words for sexual passion and for love of one's parents and one's children and for affection - but no precise word for the romantic concept of falling in love. Japanese translators translating English novels into Japanese in the later nineteenth century had a lot of trouble finding a word what would translate the western concept of love with all its overtones and nuances. Incidentally they also had trouble with the word kiss which - when it cropped up in Victorian novels that Japanese translators were translating - was initially transliterated as kissu. Kissing was considered a very private erotic activity indeed. When The Kiss, Rodin’s statue of two lovers kissing, was erected in Tokyo in the 1930s, the kissing heads had to be wrapped in a scarf (there was no problem with the naked bodies). And the first western-style screen kiss occurred in a Japanese movie after World War II (under American pressure). So it was very interesting for me to try and evoke a society which was so different from our own! I think western attitudes also were very different a hundred years ago; it's one of the challenges of a historical novelist to try to make the characters sympathetic yet to recognise that they are not necessarily driven by exactly the same impulses as we are. There’s no reason why we should consider ourselves some kind of norm. Thank you all for your comments.
There are plenty of words for love in modern Japanese – all with different nuances. I was talking about Japan up to the mid-nineteenth century – which is when my novel is set. At that point there were words for sexual passion and for love of one’s parents and one’s children and for affection – but no precise word for the romantic concept of falling in love. Japanese translators translating English novels into Japanese in the later nineteenth century had a lot of trouble finding a word what would translate the western concept of love with all its overtones and nuances.
Incidentally they also had trouble with the word kiss which – when it cropped up in Victorian novels that Japanese translators were translating – was initially transliterated as kissu. Kissing was considered a very private erotic activity indeed. When The Kiss, Rodin’s statue of two lovers kissing, was erected in Tokyo in the 1930s, the kissing heads had to be wrapped in a scarf (there was no problem with the naked bodies). And the first western-style screen kiss occurred in a Japanese movie after World War II (under American pressure).
So it was very interesting for me to try and evoke a society which was so different from our own! I think western attitudes also were very different a hundred years ago; it’s one of the challenges of a historical novelist to try to make the characters sympathetic yet to recognise that they are not necessarily driven by exactly the same impulses as we are. There’s no reason why we should consider ourselves some kind of norm.

]]> By: Volt http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14 Volt Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:33:41 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-14 Is there really no word for love? Isn't there also the word koi? Of course I wouldn't dare to say what you said was wrong, rather the opposite, as I think there are different ways you can look at something, but 恋"koi" and 愛"Ai" are, as I see them, definitely words for love. If they aren't please correct me. Is there really no word for love? Isn’t there also the word koi? Of course I wouldn’t dare to say what you said was wrong, rather the opposite, as I think there are different ways you can look at something, but 恋”koi” and 愛”Ai” are, as I see them, definitely words for love. If they aren’t please correct me.

]]> By: Misch http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-13 Misch Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:09:00 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-13 I'm from Luxembourg (Europe) and the language spoken here (Luxembourgian) is a sort of German dialect but closer to dutch. Anyway. As you say in your 2 second bullet. In my language there is no real difference between the word "like" and "love" either. Just as you said in Luxembourgian you would also say "I love you" just like you would say "I like toast" I'm sure there are more languages around the world where "it just didn't come to" having two words for love and like. Just my two cents. ^ I’m from Luxembourg (Europe) and the language spoken here (Luxembourgian) is a sort of German dialect but closer to dutch. Anyway. As you say in your 2 second bullet. In my language there is no real difference between the word “like” and “love” either. Just as you said in Luxembourgian you would also say “I love you” just like you would say “I like toast”
I’m sure there are more languages around the world where “it just didn’t come to” having two words for love and like.

Just my two cents. ^

]]> By: preston moore http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-12 preston moore Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:23:44 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-12 Well the whole concept for the Japanese to have one word with one meaning is impossible. I am studying Japanese right know and I have discovered right off the bat that that most Japanese words have two or three meanings, for example there word for legal wife is "seisai" however this is also the word for punishment. What varies these two meanings is the kanji ( Chinese cheracters that the Japanese use ) the kanji for legal wife is: 正妻 however the kanji for punishment is: 制裁 however this also means sanction so its a very twisted web of meaning alot more complex than English. ALOT MORE COMPLEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Well the whole concept for the Japanese to have one word with one meaning is impossible. I am studying Japanese right know and I have discovered right off the bat that that most Japanese words have two or three meanings, for example there word for legal wife is “seisai” however this is also the word for punishment. What varies these two meanings is the kanji ( Chinese cheracters that the Japanese use ) the kanji for legal wife is: 正妻 however the kanji for punishment is: 制裁 however this also means sanction so its a very twisted web of meaning alot more complex than English. ALOT MORE COMPLEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

]]> By: Lesley http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-11 Lesley Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:59:12 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-11 Rus: That's precisely what I want to say. Kaylynn: Good point ... One key point is that in pre-modern Japan - which was a society much as Rus describes - people did fall in love; but to do so was nearly always seen as a disaster. Japanese stories and kabuki plays concerning love do not end ‘and they got married and lived happily ever after’, because the man was by definition married and the woman probably a courtesan or a geisha (viz Snow Country for a start.). I remember being somewhere on the Japan Sea coast, near Kanazawa. For some reason the people I was with asked me how many love suicides a year there were in England; I think we were near a ‘lovers’ leap’. I said, ‘None’. They said, ‘That can’t be possible. There must be love suicides.’ Another view of ‘human nature'? Rus: That’s precisely what I want to say. Kaylynn: Good point …
One key point is that in pre-modern Japan – which was a society much as Rus describes – people did fall in love; but to do so was nearly always seen as a disaster. Japanese stories and kabuki plays concerning love do not end ‘and they got married and lived happily ever after’, because the man was by definition married and the woman probably a courtesan or a geisha (viz Snow Country for a start.).
I remember being somewhere on the Japan Sea coast, near Kanazawa. For some reason the people I was with asked me how many love suicides a year there were in England; I think we were near a ‘lovers’ leap’. I said, ‘None’. They said, ‘That can’t be possible. There must be love suicides.’ Another view of ‘human nature’?

]]> By: Kaylynn http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-10 Kaylynn Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:59:10 +0000 http://www.lesleydowner.com/2008/02/15/how-do-you-fall-in-love-when-your-society-has-no-word-for-it/#comment-10 Granted suki desu is used, but what about aishteiru? Granted suki desu is used, but what about aishteiru?

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